MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg is taking the witness stand for the third straight day. He is testifying at a federal antitrust trial that could threaten his business empire. That's because the Federal Trade Commission is pushing for the social media company to be broken up. NPR's Bobby Allyn has been in the courtroom following all this, and he's with us now in our studios in Washington, D.C., and an early morning after a long day. Thanks, Bobby.
BOBBY ALLYN, BYLINE: Hey, Michel. Good morning.
MARTIN: So what stood out to you in the last two days of Zuckerberg's testimony?
ALLYN: Yeah. Well, he hasn't generated any controversy yet. So from Meta's perspective, Zuckerberg is doing quite well. But the FDC has a very particular mission in grilling Zuckerberg. The agency wants to show that when Meta purchased Instagram in 2012 and WhatsApp two years later, that it was done to neutralize competitors, so to snap up rivals seen as a threat rather than, you know, competing fairly. So to do this, the FDC has been making Zuckerberg read dozens of emails and internal messages from more than a decade ago. The FTC, you know, really wants to illuminate Zuckerberg's true motivations in buying Instagram and WhatsApp.
But Zuckerberg was well trained for this moment, and he hasn't yet completely taken the bait. He has been shown old messages, like one where he wrote, quote, "it is better to buy than to compete," where he's basically making the FTC's case for them. But on reflecting on them today, Zuckerberg has not admitted on the stand that Meta back then had this motivation to throw its weight around and to try to neutralize these competitors.
MARTIN: So what are the best-case outcomes of this trial - first, for the FTC and then for Meta?
ALLYN: Well, for the FTC, it's that - a federal judge in the case, James Boasberg, finding Meta guilty of operating as an illegal social media monopoly and ordering Meta to sell off Instagram and to sell off WhatsApp. For Meta, it's Boasberg ruling that the government has not cleared the high bar for proving that Meta has acted anticompetitively. But a verdict is just really far off here. I mean, we are now only day three on what's scheduled to be a two-month trial.
And some new reporting from The Wall Street Journal is worth noting, too. The paper says that Zuckerberg offered the Trump administration $450 million to settle the case before trial. Now, the FDC didn't agree to this. You know, it's possible that President Trump intervenes still, right? There was a lot of speculation that the case would settle before trial. That hasn't happened yet, but some are wondering, can it still?
MARTIN: You know, honestly, there are very few things that the Trump administration and the Biden administration actually agreed on, but one of the few was reigning in Silicon Valley. Are there other antitrust cases brewing?
ALLYN: Yeah. So beyond this big Meta case, Trump's Justice Department will be heading to court with Google next week. The DOJ won a monopoly case against the search giant last year, and the DOJ is expected to ask a judge to break up Google. Apple, too, is facing down a pending monopoly case over similar allegations, you know, from the DOJ over whether Apple's iPhone - you know, this walled garden that kind of traps people in Apple's system - whether that's anticompetitive.
But all of these legal actions come during another trend, too, and that's Silicon Valley elite getting closer and closer to the Trump administration, really cozying up to the administration. And these companies are hoping that will mean the administration will pump the brakes on these legal fights. But if the Meta trial here is any guide, it does not look like that will be happening, at least not yet.
MARTIN: That is NPR's Bobby Allyn. Bobby, thank you.
ALLYN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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