A MART脥NEZ, HOST:
The Trump administration says the United States has been invaded by a criminal gang known as Tren de Aragua - or TDA for short - which started in a Venezuelan prison about a decade ago. The administration portrays the gang as a de facto foreign enemy whose members may be deported without a hearing under the 1798 Alien Enemies Act. But how real is this gang invasion? Well, we brought in two reporters this morning to talk about what the evidence here is. NPR law enforcement correspondent Martin Kaste and Colorado Public Radio's Allison Sherry, who's been covering the situation in Aurora.
So, Allison, let's start with you. President Trump has painted this picture of Aurora being overrun by TDA. So what's the situation with this gang right there in Colorado?
ALLISON SHERRY, BYLINE: I mean, there is a TDA gang presence here, but we don't have any evidence that it's really large. For example, ICE in February targeted more than a hundred gang members in a raid at multiple apartment complexes. But then officials later told Fox News they detained only about 30 people and one gang member. You know, we've seen the federal government tag people as TDA gang members based on tattoos they have or nightclubs they frequent. In one case we were watching in immigration court, a judge was openly skeptical of that - that the government was equating tattoos to gang affiliations. So I think it's safe to say there isn't widespread agreement on the dangers TDA poses, as the government claims, even among federal immigration judges.
MART脥NEZ: Yeah. But it's not a new thing that the federal government goes after gang members.
SHERRY: No. But what is new is this target on their backs because of their alleged affiliation. I spoke to Colorado's former U.S. Attorney Jason Dunn, who Trump appointed in his first term. He says, in his day, he didn't usually look at gang affiliations but the crimes they committed.
JASON DUNN: It's much easier to prove a felon in possession case, say, than it would be to prove, you know, narcotics trafficking or a RICO case. You know, those are not huge sentences, but they're oftentimes a couple years in federal prison. And we found that a great way to get the worst actors off the streets, let them grow up a little bit.
SHERRY: You know, gang membership mostly, in and of itself, is not a crime. So I think most law enforcement officers prioritize other offenses to get gang members off the street.
MART脥NEZ: So turning to you now, Martin. You've been looking at the question of TDA's presence nationally. And what are you hearing from law enforcement on that?
MARTIN KASTE, BYLINE: Well, reports of TDA vary quite a bit by region. Generally speaking, it kind of tracks with where Venezuelan migrants have been settling. So more active states would be Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Texas and New York. The criminal cases against the gang members - alleged gang members - are still relatively few, especially when you compare it to cases tied to other gangs, such as MS-13 or American street gangs. But TDA is here. Its main criminal enterprise so far seems to be human smuggling, trafficking. That's, again, something you'd see during large migrations like we've had in the last few years.
And some of the best information we've had about the gang's methods is coming from South America, where police have been tracking them longer. For example, police in Chile have been trying to extradite some alleged gang members who they say took over some bus stations there in Chile to prey on their fellow Venezuelans as they were migrating illegally into Chile. They were extorting these people, kidnapping them and sometimes even committing rape.
MART脥NEZ: What about, though, in the U.S.? Are we seeing the gang commit similar kinds of human trafficking crimes here?
KASTE: There have been some alleged cases. For instance, federal prosecutors in Tennessee announced in February that they were charging eight Venezuelans for allegedly running a, quote, "transnational commercial sex enterprise." Prosecutors say the people in that group claimed to be in Tren de Aragua to intimidate their victims.
MART脥NEZ: OK. But how can they know defendants like that are really members of a gang?
KASTE: Yeah. It's a challenge, especially for American police and prosecutors, who are using intelligence that comes from South American police about gang members' alleged preference for certain tattoos or clothing. But the trouble is those symbols are popular with a lot of Venezuelans, not necessarily only gang members. And it's not always clear that this gang even requires those symbols, especially in the United States. I talked to an expert in Latin American gangs, Charles Katz at Arizona State. He says there's a huge difference between evidence of gang membership and intel that might help police track the members of a gang but isn't necessarily enough to convict someone. And he is not impressed with the kind of intel that the federal government is using.
CHARLES KATZ: Federal agencies don't have good gang data. They've defunded most of the strategies and operations to really keep tabs on those kind of things. And most of the information that the federal government uses from law enforcement is secondary or third.
KASTE: And you can see there the problem if the federal government is using this kind of intel just to summarily deport people. There's also another problem here in that the Trump administration, by invoking the Alien Enemies Act, is claiming that Tren de Aragua is being run by the government of Venezuela as a kind of terrorist organization invasion. But as far as the experts I've talked to are concerned, that's just a claim. There's zero evidence that the Venezuelan government is involved here.
MART脥NEZ: All right, so back to Colorado and Allison. Are these gang members dangerous? I mean, have they been charged with any crimes?
SHERRY: There are a few alleged TDA gang members facing state charges, and ICE has been bringing some of these guys to court. But I want to talk about the case of Nixon Perez, who had a state case for felony tampering. He was accused of picking up some shell casings after a firefight. Perez recently got deported before his American criminal case was resolved. And I talked to Brian Mason, the DA on the case, on its overall precedent.
BRIAN MASON: When someone is deported before a local prosecutor like me has been able to charge and prosecute a defendant, one, it means that any victim in the case does not see justice. Two, it completely undermines our ability to prosecute what may be a larger case.
SHERRY: You know, overall, Mason says there doesn't have to be this tension between ICE and local law enforcement, that people should face their days in court, go through due process. If they're convicted, he says they should serve out a sentence and then be picked up by ICE. It's been happening like this for decades. I think prosecutors and law enforcement worry now that this whole effort that the administration has said will improve public safety isn't necessarily doing that when people don't have to face consequences for their actions.
MART脥NEZ: That's Colorado Public Radio's Allison Sherry and NPR law enforcement correspondent Martin Kaste. Thanks, you two.
SHERRY: You're welcome.
KASTE: You're welcome.
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