Part 2 of the TED Radio Hour episode
Psychologist and New York University business school Dolly Chugh has spent years studying morality and how "good" people see themselves.
"Many of us have what psychologists call a central moral identity. We care about whether we're seen as a good person 鈥� and whether we feel like good people," Chugh told NPR's Manoush Zomorodi.
But every individual has a different definition of what "good" is.
"What I'm interested in 鈥� is the gap between your definition of what a good person is and your ability to actually show up as that person," says Chugh.
Why it is difficult to live up to your definition of "good"
People are likely to think of being good as clear-cut 鈥� either you're good or you're not, either you're ethical or you're not.
But reality is more complicated. To explain it, Chugh has developed a theory called .
"The idea that sometimes we behave ethically and sometimes we don't, sometimes that's intentional and sometimes it's not," says Chugh.
For example, imagine you are walking down the street and accidentally bump into someone.
"You didn't mean to 鈥� and they call you a name and it makes you feel horrible," says Chugh. For some, she says, this interaction can cause a negative thought spiral. "I'm like, 'Wait, am I a jerk?'"
When people feel that their image as a good person is threatened, they typically respond to protect it.
"When someone is giving us information about how they're seeing us 鈥� that we're not a good person, or we've done something sexist, or we've done something racist 鈥� it often doesn't land well with us," says Chugh. "But unfortunately, this creates exactly the opposite loop and reinforcing mechanism that we need in that moment."
In response, people might defend their good-person identity, insisting that the incident was a misunderstanding, or they might shut down completely.
Instead of being "good," try being "good-ish"
Chugh says that to become better people, we need to let go of the idea of being a good person. Instead, she says to aspire to a different standard 鈥� of being a "good-ish" person.
A good-ish person still makes mistakes but learns from them more frequently.
"As a good-ish person, in fact, I become better at noticing my own mistakes. I don't wait for people to point them out," Chugh said in a . It's an uncomfortable, embarrassing feeling, she acknowledged. "But through all that vulnerability 鈥� we see progress. We see growth. We allow ourselves to get better."
How a growth mindset can lead you to become a better person
For Chugh, thinking about yourself as a good-ish person is about embracing a growth mindset.
She adds that for a "good-ish" person, morality is a skill to develop like any other.
"Just like I can get better at pickleball, I can get better at being an ethical person with practice," Chugh says. "Learning is thrilling. It's uncomfortable. It's exciting. It's painful. It's pride inducing. It is one of the things that is most gratifying."
This segment of the TED Radio Hour was produced by Harsha Nahata and was edited by Sanaz Meshkinpour and Rachel Faulkner White. You can follow us on and email us at TEDRadioHour@npr.org.
Web resources
: Dolly Chugh
: "Want to change the world? Start by being brave enough to care"
: "What makes a good life?"
Related NPR links
: "Jeff Goldblum on being a good person"
: "Why we think working hard makes you a good person"
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